MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice/Archive 4

src: i.imgur.com

Video MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice/Archive 4

'Thank you!' message

I want to keep 'Thank you!' direct messages until 00:00 UTC Tuesday 10 January. The reason is to allow plenty of time for messages to be seen by donors (many of whom do not use Wikipedia on a daily basis and/or over the weekend), I am time to write a final report for all drives (still waiting for Dexia and more email donation updates) , and to maintain some current momentum (many donations are made).

One more thing; I do not know if cafepress.org can handle links from sitenotice. If it is not available for too long, then replace the second line in sitenotice with this:

The suggestion of Wikipedia's personal founding establishment from Wikipedia, Wikipedia, Wikipedia, continues.

- mav 06:43, January 6, 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but everything for selection should be completed within the next 48 hours. Oh and the cafepress sucks you'd think we could find someone better. Geni 13:56, January 6, 2006 (UTC)

Mav is responsible for fundraising, let him decide when messages should be changed. The majority of people do not know or care about arbcom, and I doubt you will find someone to solve the problem by posting a message on every page. Anyone who cares already knows. If you want to try placing a message on the home page, use Template: Home Page Banner. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-6 14:14

About 36 hours I would make people complain that I did not warn them about close candidates. I want to keep this number as minium. I am not looking for the help I have solved, I just do not want many people to complain that they are not warned. Oh and see the vote count from the last time. People care. Geni 14:22, January 6, 2006 (UTC)

So put it in MediaWiki: Watchdetails. Anyone who registers far enough back that they have the right to vote and is still there will see it there. --Cryptic (talk) 14:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. That must be not entered into sitenotice. - And | talk 14:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I just came here to suggest putting it in your watchlist notifications. Let me add "Come here!" - Essjay Ã, Â · Talk 15:06, January 6, 2006 (UTC)

Maps MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice/Archive 4

Grammar

I have added quotes and s so it now reads: "Jimmy Wales founder Wikipedia...". If I remember correctly, this is a great way to put possessive quotes in the names of people ending in "s". Alternatively, we can rewrite all statements to avoid apostrophes. Thank you! Flcelloguy (A note? ) 01:37, January 7, 2006 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

'Thank you!'

Is it just me or will "thank you!" looks better than 'Thanks!'? --King of the Franks 19:11, January 7, 2006 (UTC)

View quotation marks. --mav

src: 4.bp.blogspot.com

Missing/DIV?

Am I, or is there a missing & lt;/div & gt; eventually? (I counted two DIV openings, then closed, then opened again, and then one cover). --Locke Cole o t o c 10:19, January 8, 2006 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Personal submission ID

Hi mav, please add ID for personal appeal. For example. - & lt; div id = "pabanner"... & gt; . Thank you! --Locke Cole o t o c 03:03, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Done. - Mark 03:06, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

src: 1.bp.blogspot.com

Alignment

Have an annoying enough notification on the right. The exact font and the exact same presentation from sitenotice are the same as the "You have new message" notification. One can only see in the peripheral vision for bold text at the top right for new message notifications, but this does not seem to be the case anymore. Dysprosia 04:02, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know how CSS works? Because I will do it myself, but I can not edit the page in the MediaWiki namespace. I'll figure out what kind of CSS will fix it, but I'm not really sure what people want to see on the Cologneblue page. Plus, unless Monobook's custom CSS was moved to MediaWiki: Monobook.css, I need to use ! Important , which should really be the last option. Mind you, I'm against keeping messages in the current state.

Sigh... this is the opposite of the situation in Meta, where I have the necessary CSS repairs, but no one is acting on them.

Finally, there are implications on moving CSS to an external stylesheet, most importantly, that effect will not kick until people clear their cache, so you can not really expect about what you want. Ã, ;-) - - Ambush Commander ^(Talk) 23:48, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Spam 2

... no fun wherever it appears. It gives the impression (rightly or not) that we are permanently looking for money, from our established contributor and passing soul. It's in a popup print, because it forces you to notice it even if you hate it. This will dull the effects of fundraising in the future, and generally quite toxic.

Can we get rid of it? -Splash ^talk 03:00, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how often Wikimedia does fundraising events, but I do not see any disadvantages in leaving a small record there for a week or so to get a last minute donation. I agree that it should not be there permanently. --Locke Cole o t o c 03:04, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

There are 4 per year. The new kan-o-spam is a permanent feature. -Splash ^{talk 03:08, January 10, 2006 (UTC)}

Having more real reminders for people to contribute is part of a board's long-term agreed strategy to ensure Wikipedia continues to have enough money to stay online. Please do not delete single line messages. We can not afford not to increase donations among fundraisers. :) If the design is bad, then we can fix it, but something must stay in a very conspicuous but relatively unobtrusive place. --mav

In exchange for reducing the fundraising effect because everyone is tired of pleading? Sounds like the best zero sum game. -Splash ^talk 03:08, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

There is no evidence that the effect will be as you claim. All PBS programs have a message of "thanks for donating" at the beginning, and they are still doing well in their fundraising. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-10 03:10

The bottom line is we have to earn the money, and asking it seems to be the clearest way to do that. When it's no longer effective, we have to look elsewhere, but I think it's better to eliminate the most unpleasant possibility first. - And | talk 03:12, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Of course, and people can always ignore it in their CSS if they want (see the top of this page). - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-10 03:10

I can think of three ways to do that without using sitenotice:

1) Highlight a link in the sidebar

2) create a logo link to the donation page

3) Put a link in featured articles

all of this has the advantage that I do not have to deal with the help that complains that having to scroll down is raising people's mobile bills. Geni 03:11, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

What percentage of users use mobile phones, and what percentage of those donate? - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-10 03:22

I do not know about the first and the second is okay unless the wikimedia foundation has changed its charter. Geni 03:25, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the spark, not only is it really annoying but it really makes me NOT want to donate anything. The smaller text is better but if you keep it longer it will make the fund-raiser look like a joke :( The difference between PBS is that it actually does not ask you to donate, it's thanking you for doing so... < small> WhiteNight ^{T | @ | C} 03:13, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

The current version will not be a permanent version. The permanent version will be like a PBS "Thank you" message. If that bothers you, look at the top of this page for how to block it. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-10 03:19

I just saw plural in mav message. How many different ways did the Board plan to come hold my wallet? -Splash ^talk 03:15, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

There is also a plan to place the Donation image in the left bar, about the size of the search block. Wikimedia will also contract the thugs to go from house to house, shaking the Wikipedians for money. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-10 03:19

Will I start editing here if the first things I see all say "GIMME GIMME $$$$$". No. I have told Wikimedia and it's a cute message where they can put themselves. -Splash ^talk 03:26, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

AMEN! In all seriousness, mav et al. your thought process is wrong here - it does not solve the real problem - that is why you don? t get any donations. Instead, you take a quick approach that can hurt you in the long run. WhiteNight ^{T | @ | C} 03:40, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Okay, you claim to have identified the problem. Now, can you give me insight to fix it? If Google ever decided to come through the ancient promise they helped us, then we might be set, but until then, we are stuck with what we have. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-10 13:21

The problem is the total donation of non-fundraiser is way, much smaller than healthy. Look at October About as much as * in the whole month * as an average below average in this last fund drive. I would like to get at least a few days equivalent to a monthly fund transfer fund of non-funds. --mav 03:29, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

mav, hope you can answer this (is something I ask brian0918 on IRC, but after you leave). Is there a point where a foundation can have enough money in a bank that produces self-sustaining interest (including accounting for growth)? --Locke Cole o t o c 03:40, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Not possible. Even the interest earned from a $ 100 million donation will not grow fast enough for us. Will be enough for this year, but after that, no. We grow too fast and need to use donations as revenue. Things will look a little better if the endowment grows as fast as it says, the stock market, but it will only add a few years before we should start pulling the endowment. --mav 04:36, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Ah well, wishful thinking, thank you mav. --Locke Cole o t. C 04:43, January 10, 2006 (UTC)

Fundraising is only kept (to some extent) by Jimbo's private intervention (this may not be the place to discuss the failure of the funding impulse before that). This is a trick you can only drag once , obviously. Now, Mav wants to get every month to bring in more money as every day in fundraising. However, 4 (drive funds) x 21 (daily) = 84, and that's over 12 (months)! This indicates that we must remove the "big guns" from Jimbo's appeal for fundraising.

Is this a planned attack to keep the sitenotice removed? What exactly do you mean to repeatedly delete sitenotice without saying a single thing on the talk page? To get your way? - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN & amp; bul; 2006-01-12 08:55

Give me a chance to type! See "Spam 2" above. Dan100 (Talk) 09:02, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

As I have written many times, this is a shame. You (referring to all parties) may not choose a more visible place to do battle. I feel like writing for a new user who is unfamiliar with the concept of a talk page. Please stop editing sitenotice until you reach a decision; to do otherwise reflects badly on all of us. - And | talk 09:11, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Please stop editing sitenotice until at least Mav runs out. As much as I remember, the board and the finance committee agreed to keep the site notified for a few more days. We have a board meeting planned within the next few days (actually, 4 board members and 4 officers will be in Tampa for the next days, for a great brainstorm), so please be patient. Mav also worked on a new system for donations. So the call may soon be gone. In the meantime, please, do not lose your time on an edit war on this poor sitenotice. Thank you very much. Anthere

Ja.wikipedia does not seem to have sitenotice so Mav may be busy elsewhere. You are the people who try to force this by force rather than through the official channels. We have been waiting a few days, I think it is your turn to do this. Geni 10:03, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Right. But Mav does not read Japanese, so it might not help :-) I'm not entirely sure what you call the official channel... but I think Mav, as CFO, is allowed to activate this sitenotice, and should be respected. I also think that as a * only * board member who wakes up now, and being one of the 5 people responsible for keeping the website running (it needs money you know?), I think I can return this notice without being asked to go through the official channels. I have notified the internal mailing list from the situation 1 hour ago and I am sure Daniel or Jimbo will reply itself as soon as they are online. If you still disagree, please write to yayasan-l@wikimedia.org. Anthere

Because you think en.wiki notifications must be turned off because ja.wiki notifications have been deleted, let me show you that fr: wiki and de: wiki, which are the two largest languages ​​after en, there is still a notification. Not the same as en: the wiki does, but it leads to the fundraising page. Anthere

Please do not make a straw. Of course I know the status of the fundraising notice on the wiki. However, ja.wikipedia clearly shows that there is no coordinated position on this. Geni 12:38, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

If the site is a few normal days worth of donations away from the collapse I think you have an obligation to inform everyone. The official announcement board overrides the local site autonomy. No other. You are of course free to return notice (and I am free to remove it) even if you get closer to 3 return rules.Geni 10:32, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

I think it's all "our turn" to be quiet, go edit a lot of Wikipedia article issues that need attention, turn off sitenotice in CSS if offensive, and do not blink sitenotice on and off. Dysprosia 10:07, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Can we stop the return? Dysprosia 10:27, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'll be back again. If this causes me to be blocked under three return rules, it does not matter. I would gladly take a break :-) I do not think it will be a good decision in the long run. We have different jobs in this project. Yours sincerely possible to do a good article, things I can not do anymore. My work is partly to ensure developers will meet their budget by this quarter. For this, I will stand :-) Again, no official board decision will be taken until another board member wakes up. It will probably remove notifications... or it will remove the power of sysop for you... but I think that with respect for the work we do, and as a reward for this site running at all, you should keep on. Simple. Now, it's time for me to have lunch :-) Good day. Anthere 10:56, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

If we are two days away from destruction, I really think you should tell us. This will allow us to take database dumps and the like. To threaten me with deadminship, I would suggest that if the threats and pleas against emotions are all you have, you rethink your position. You see under the support you need. If you're only patient for a few hours, you do not need to edit the war. Geni 12:04, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I have to go back, but this is totally ridiculous. We do not get the money the developers need, we need the board to do what's necessary to make sure we keep going. My mind is frustrated from the slowness of last time when we did not have the equipment to cope with the number of visitors. We are now in the top 20 at Alexa - you can not keep a prominent site without funds. Funding and how to achieve that is the domain of the council - can we please help not disturb it - sannse (talk) 10:54, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Your proof that this is a nessacery or is it the best defeat? Geni 12:04, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

I believe our us people are selected to know this and make a decision in this area. At least enough to leave notice where it is and discuss it if I disagree - sannse (talk) 13:59, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) Please leave it there until someone comes up with a better idea or Mav decides that it's not necessary.

The Wikimedia Board of Trustees administers nonprofits and monitors dispositions and requests for nonprofit donations... The board has the power to direct the foundation's activities.

from http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees - wub "?!" ^{RFR - good idea?} 10:59, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

But there is no bulletin board. They have not met yet. Geni 12:04, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

You play with the words here Geni. We decided a few days ago to let the notice stand up any minute. This does not come from nowhere. Mav does not fully rely on his own and certainly not against our will. So the next decision is not to confirm that we "keep it", but will "delete" it. Anthere

The ongoing war is not the way to solve any problems. Turn off sitenotice in your CSS until they have met and made a decision, if sitenotice is really bothering you! Reversal is not the answer. Dysprosia 12:16, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Okay I tried the discus but it did not seem to work and Anthere arbitrarily wanted to edit the war rather than wait for more people to come and support his position.Geni 12:38, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned above, the decision to keep this notice is the decision of the Foundation. This is not something the editor chooses, as well as budget decisions or whether to buy a new server is not a decision selected by the editor. We certainly welcome the editor's opinion, but in the end, this is the Foundation's decision. Anthere

We've been through this. Please provide a meeting minutes where the discrete place is given or give me a clue how I can get it. Ok I will not mess up I already know they are not there because there has not been a formal meeting and therefore no formal decisions. Once you have the right meeting and made the official decision, I will accept it. I have a right to say that the rejection is not true but I will accept it. However the receipt came with a price. The price you follow procedure.Geni 13:20, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

No, you keep repeating when the conversation is in progress. It is not "trying to discuss". Let sitenotice in a stable state now, please, and discuss this without further return. Dysprosia 12:59, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

cheat revert time. At 09:12 Anthere lay eggs without discussion, I did the same at 09:49. At 10:04 Anthere returned me with a message looking at the conversation although my comment about the conversation was the latest on this talk page still going on when I revoked at 10:08. Anthere then commented and returned me at 10:21. I then returned at 10:34 after commenting twice. I think I am doing a fair action to discuss things but my power is dulled back. That's life. Geni 13:20, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Maybe you should do some control. Do not forget that this is a template that looks everywhere on Wikipedia , and changing it quickly is bad idea . Remember editing wars exist only with two people, not just one. Dysprosia 01:29, January 13, 2006 (UTC)

I created a topic on the Chalkboard of the Administrator on this subject and was informed that the notification was expected to be removed January 10. If it is an official decision and no one cancels or revokes it, it is quite clear that the decision should be made outside. Unless there is anything other than Anthere's insistence, let him exceed 3RR, be blocked, and notices removed until the Board issues a statement ordering a restoration. Wikipedia is not a democracy. cooki e capers (talk/contribs) 13:04, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

You got it right. Wikipedia is not a democracy... Anthere

However, there is a process you ignore. Geni 13:53, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

I, for one, respect Anthere to speak on board intent. Have you read the user's page lately? Flight Dragons 13:19, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

thanks Dragons flight. Mav is now there, I let him fix the problem. Anthere

January 10 is the day when a big thank you message from the last fundraiser will be deleted. Past. Jimmy's personal appeal is a separate matter. --mav 13:31, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

The possibility is very crazy

It hap- pened to me that it's possible to hack Mediawiki: Userlogin (ie "Sign in/Create account" which appears in the top right of visitors who are not logged in) in such a way as to add an interesting donation to the top left or center of the user screen when they are not logged in. Doing so would obviously be a pretty serious hack, but I think it's technically possible (though I have not tested it for obvious reasons).

I float this as a possible alternative to global site notifications, but it does not really have a strong sense of approach, and maybe the foundation will decide what appearance they want. Flight Dragons 13:13, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Another similar idea is to add links using techniques for static links to Kate's tool on Wikipedia: Kate's Tool. wub "?!" ^{RFR - good idea?} 13:42, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Give me a hack and I can test it on my local MediaWiki installation ;-). - Ambush Commander ^(Speak) 22:00, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Hacking? Is not the message "Login..." a text message that can be changed? (SEWilco 18:40, January 16, 2006 (UTC))

It may not be that simple because it's just plain text and should have its twisted links - adding more content will be part of the registration link. Still possible. violet/riga (t) 19:14, January 16, 2006 (UTC)

No need. MediaWiki: Anonnotice was created. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-16 19:57

src: 1.bp.blogspot.com

Need to increase donation level of non-fund drives

We take less money on an average â € Å" non-funded non-cash diving month * than we do on average day * fundraising *. Much of this may be because of a barely visible donation link in the sidebar. Our costs grow almost as exponentially as ours. Thus raising the level of non-funded donation drives is essential to ensure the financial health of the foundation and its projects. It will also be a lesson of pressure we have during fundraising and may even reduce their duration. Let me repeat some other points:

• The Council, with its unanimous consent, agrees to keep the sitenotice longer at least on the English Wikipedia. There is no specific time period mentioned, so * they * need to clarify that at the next meeting. Until then, the notice * should * remain. Anthere, board member, is 100% correct.
• That the notification was not on the other wiki is my mistake and my own mistake: I should coordinate the translation, but since I have never been really happy with the notification words, I have not done that. I wish we all could work here, as adults, to find the best words.
• The Council also agrees, again with the unanimous consent, that we need to permanently have a more important reminder that we need donations. There is no specific method for doing so that is decided. It may require a message in sitenotice, the donation button replacing the almost invisible donation link in the sidebar, footer message, or a combination of those things. I hope this will be one thing we can do in the upcoming meeting.
• Very important: the main target audience for all donation and fundraising messages are people who are primarily or just reading Wikipedia. I personally * do not * expect regular editors to donate coins because they've donated their time. The smart editors already have the ability to edit their Monobook.css file to make notifications disappear. One of the things I want to talk about in the upcoming meeting is to add that functionality to the user's account preferences (maybe whiten it until the account is x days old to mitigate the reader creating the account for the sole purpose of deleting donation/fundraising messages).

So please stop issuing messages until the board decides what to do. Everyone also needs to understand that top 20 websites require serious earnings to keep going and donations made through various websites supported by the foundation are where most of the funding comes from. --mav 13:27, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Some questions. Will the foundation collapse within the next two days? Does the board agree in a formal meeting? What has a translation problem related to notification failure to appear on wikibook? Why do not you stop putting a message until the board decides what to do? You know the following process and all that. Geni 13:39, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

No, the foundation will not collapse in the next two days. But if you are willing to cover the amount of money that we will fail to get at that time if the sitemessage is empty, then please say. :) BTW, we got a $ 5000 donation yesterday, possibly because of the sustainability of sitenotice. It was not a formal meeting; it's triggered from me asking a question on the internal list and getting good or silent support from the board members. Basically someone says they will do something unless there is opposing. If at least one member of the board opposes or wishes to have an email voice, then we should elect each member of the board. Requiring an official council meeting for all will cause a deadlock because it is very difficult to get everyone in the same place at the same time. The fact that I do not like those words will make me hesitate to pass them elsewhere until I like those words. But instead of doing those words, we argue if any words should be there at all. --mav 14:10, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

While that's fair enough, please do not use that as an excuse to keep fundraising items in sitenotice longer than is really necessary. When is this meeting? It's already spent a good editor, if we have to get around instructing editors who work hard how to use CSS tricks, it should be as short as possible. Ambi 14:18, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Our budget and finance meeting will be tomorrow afternoon Eastern US time (add 4 hours for UTC). --mav 14:22, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

You can meet in several ways without anyone in the same place. As long as all members are present or offer excuses and minutes they are taken and the like. Geni 14:35, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Which is how most decisions are made. For three board members and three officers to attend at one time (as is currently happening in St. Petersburg FL) is a rare occurrence. [[Sam Korn]] 16:34, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Repeat delete: what is your goal?

To people who have repeatedly removed small fundraising notifications from sitenotice, what is your purpose in doing this? - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-12 20:17

To improve the visual layout of the site.Geni 23:17, January 12, 2006 (UTC)

Who do you think? - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-01-13 01:37

Me.Geni 2:04, January 13, 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. - ₀₉₁₈ ^BRIAN o 2006-

Source of the article : Wikipedia